penguinsfan said:
I didn't read your post until after I posted my stuff last night. I don't know what kicked this thread up back into action again, but the subject matter really is relevant material.

It's nothing to do with your friend or her original question. We all know there are chicks that are cool as hell and there should be no offense taken by anyone. It's just that those of us that have had a hard time and bad experiences are leaning more towards the notion that the cool chicks are fewer and further between. Hope your friend is having fun at college.

No prob, I understand.
 
TomdW said:
I agree with you on many of your points. It's very true that men need love just as much as women do.

One thing that sticks out for me is the sense that men biologically are designed to have more than one mate in our lifetimes. For instance if you look at monkeys or gorillas they have children with a partner and then get on with their own lives although they still care for the children they also have other sexual partners.

Maybe it is built into us to want more than one sexual partner over time. I'm generalizing quite a lot but I'm talking about men on average. Look back a few hundred years ago men had more than one wife a lot of the time.

When I go out I spend a lot of my time looking at and thinking about women. I think that it is built in to us psychologically to always be looking for new mates. Whereas in women they don't think about it as much. Say you're in a relationship and you go out with your partner. You want to look at the other women but you are not allowed to because your partner will become jealous and angry with you. Eventually you snap and have an affair which hurts everyone more than if you were just honest about who you were in the first place.

I don't think that that is the way it should be. Realistically you are only looking to have sex with them but because women attach a lot more meaning to sex they think that you are after more than you really are.

All in all I think that society doesn't play into our hands.

Tell me more about this 'Reptilian Brain' you are referring to. :)

To the text in bold:
Oh I know and I understand that, but that has to do with development/maturity. What I'm talking about when I say the Reptilian brain is the most primal part of our evolved brain which you can look into on your own, but a basic definition of it would be the lower brain or brain stem that allowed us to focus on survival. It is the part of the brain, which helps you react without thinking so to speak. There are other parts of the brain like the mammalian brain or limbic stem that deals with emotions. If you are afraid to take on certain things in life such as relationship problems then you are probably resorting to irrational behavior. When I say maturity I mean a person who is mature enough to make conscious analytical decisions they should be able to handle relationship problems, but if they are threatend in any way within the relationship such as another man being with their woman, having to committ, or having a smaller penis than her previous lover and they resort to cheating or hitting a woman as punisHydromaxent for breaching the boundaries of their relationship aka his territory then that is not rational behavior. It was very aggressive behavior and it would make no sense to most of us, but if they are not mature enough yet or just plain are being aggressive toward their partner it is most likely because they have downshifted into their reptilian brain because of insecurity. That's not to say that leaving your woman or trying to enlarge your penis means you are using your reptilian brain. On the contrary you're thinking while considering your options and weighing them after having identified your emotions.

To the text in italics:
That is a tricky thing to understand, but behavior is most assuredly influenced and manipulated by society. That sort of acceptance in marriage or union between man and woman or whatever is a social construct. It's acceptible today in some societies as well as other other subcultures, but it just might be illegal in some nations such as here in the States. We can only have one wife, but there are people who believe that is acceptible within the country. It's all about what is accepted and what is unaccepted and after that it's all about degrees of norms.

Now truly when we are young we are likely to be looking for a mate if not for anything other than biological reasons. That's not the same thing as finding as many women to plant our seeds in as possible. Not only is that typically unacceptable in many societies, but it is an issue of using reason and thinking before you act. If you have 16 kids today in the U.S. and pay child support to 8 different mothers then I'd say you are one piece of work and you've made some pretty irrational decisions. Your self-control is weak and no matter what anyone says you have broken down the very basic and essential component of society which is the family. These were unlikely uncontrollable biological problems that caused you to penetrate these women and leave every one of them upon pregnancy. Fortunately, not everyone behaves this way so we can easily determine that the majority of the time it's a decision to behave this way. I'm not in any way saying simply DENY yourself pleasure or anything that makes sense after you give it some thought. I'm just saying there's a difference between acting on urges and inhibitions while knowingly hurting someone in your relationship and just not having a choice in the matter. That's rubbish. And HEY, yeah for those of you still reading EVERYONE fucks up at some point in relationships. Everyone makes mistakes, but why is it a mistake? BECAUSE WE SHOULD KNOW BETTER! Like I said though if you are making irrational decisions it is probably because you're downshifted into that reptilian brain. That might not be our fault to an extent, but if you are constantly behaving this way in all your relationships or most of them especially beyond a certain age there probably is something wrong there as the maturation process has probably been stunted in a large way. Whenever we are afraid or threatened of course are we behaving irrationally and our actions aren't necessarily going to be irrational either. But if you become enraged upon hearing your girlfriend confess to you she has cheated on you and you kill her lol, then that's the reptilian brain helping out somewhere along the way.

As for the rest, (and really this is just us talking about different perspectives on the same things) but I have to say I agree somewhat with you on women putting more emotions and other meanings with sex compared to men. Men often do view sex as a physical act, a time to release stress and other stuff like that, it's almost like we pride ourselves on just having it. There's nothing inherently good or bad about it in any sense either. On the other hand it depends again on your society and what is acceptable and unacceptable. Depending how strict the "law of the land" is (to save time on getting into that stuff lol) everyone is going to at least conform or deviate from the norm. Age is major factor again for both men and women when it comes to what level of maturity the person has reached(define that in any number of ways for this topic, I'll just once again broadly touch on expectations in a relationship). Now, you know as well as all of us do that there are PLENTY of women out there that just want some good ol' COCK every now and then. In terms of relationships hell there are just as many female PIMPS as there are male PIMPS/playas. There are also women that just "gold dig." Whatever, it doesn't matter. It's all the same for both men and women in this country. We all have our own expectations and desires and we want to find someone that can fulfill enough of them to satisfy us in a relationship. If we're happy we'll stay. If we're not maybe we will still stay together for better or worse or maybe we'll get a divorce or split up or what have you. It's hard to be so general when speaking about these topics because the parameters are too large. It's only discussion though, but I like reading other people's thoughts on pretty much anything. We all have our own perspectives.
 
Damn CYC stop being such a wussy whiny little woman. LOL, you suck by the way. Where have you been at?

Anyway, I can say that I had a great Valentine's Date last night, truly one of the best nights of my life and hers too. Not because of the sex, but because I was with the woman that I love more than anything. The timing for us isn't right at the moment, which is probably why I came home more than a tad irritated. Everything was amazing, and it's just one of those things that just can't be right now. It's rough, but what are you gonna do?

Women on the whole, personal opinion, want a man who will be there to care for them and treat them well. There is a huge difference between being a good man and a wuss bag. A man does what he wants, lives his life, and shares it with a certain woman, but a wuss bag tries to beg and buy his way into keeping her or getting her in the first place. He's not secure within himself to just let her live her life, and in most cases she is HIS life and that's never a good thing. BE INDEPenis EnlargementNDENT AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE. Share it with someone that you value and that deserves to be in your life, not someone that you just HAVE to cling to. That's not being independent nor is it going to make you happy in the long run.
 
EDIT: (where'd that edit button go anyway?)
iwant8inches said:
To the text in bold:
Oh I know and I understand that, but that has to do with development/maturity. What I'm talking about when I say the Reptilian brain is the most primal part of our evolved brain which you can look into on your own, but a basic definition of it would be the lower brain or brain stem that allowed us to focus on survival. It is the part of the brain, which helps you react without thinking so to speak. There are other parts of the brain like the mammalian brain or limbic stem that deals with emotions. If you are afraid to take on certain things in life such as relationship problems then you are probably resorting to irrational behavior. When I say maturity I mean a person who is mature enough to make conscious analytical decisions they should be able to handle relationship problems, but if they are threatend in any way within the relationship such as another man being with their woman, having to committ, or having a smaller penis than her previous lover and they resort to cheating or hitting a woman as punisHydromaxent for breaching the boundaries of their relationship aka his territory then that is not rational behavior. It was very aggressive behavior and it would make no sense to most of us, but if they are not mature enough yet or just plain are being aggressive toward their partner it is most likely because they have downshifted into their reptilian brain because of insecurity. That's not to say that leaving your woman or trying to enlarge your penis means you are using your reptilian brain. On the contrary you're thinking while considering your options and weighing them after having identified your emotions. The mammalian brain deals with rationalizing these emotions and feelings. I tend to look at this as (and this is all me by the way obviously, I can't speak on this stuff like I have a Ph.D) part of the brain as the after the fact part of the brain. Like the person that hits his girlfriend. He was obviously hurt, threatened, angry about something, but he reacted and struck without thinking. I look at the mammalian brain kicking in and rationializing this act after it's occurred. I wasn't getting into our sexual behavior and the things that this part of the brain deals with either because I feel that more or less people here are more rigid when it comes to sex and I feel our society has a strong grip on our collective instincts that have referred to. (the feelings and whatnot can't be regarded as their sole residing area of the brain either, but more or less this is the center for emotions, and feelings among other basic elements of survival and life)

To the text in italics:
That is a tricky thing to understand, but behavior is most assuredly influenced and manipulated by society. That sort of acceptance in marriage or union between man and woman or whatever is a social construct. It's acceptible today in some societies as well as other other subcultures, but it just might be illegal in some nations such as here in the States. We can only have one wife, but there are people who believe that is acceptible within the country. It's all about what is accepted and what is unaccepted and after that it's all about degrees of norms.

Now truly when we are young we are likely to be looking for a mate if not for anything other than biological reasons. That's not the same thing as finding as many women to plant our seeds in as possible. Not only is that typically unacceptable in many societies, but it is an issue of using reason and thinking before you act. If you have 16 kids today in the U.S. and pay child support to 8 different mothers then I'd say you are one piece of work and you've made some pretty irrational decisions. Your self-control is weak and no matter what anyone says you have broken down the very basic and essential component of society which is the family. These were unlikely uncontrollable biological problems that caused you to penetrate these women and leave every one of them upon pregnancy. Fortunately, not everyone behaves this way so we can easily determine that the majority of the time it's a decision to behave this way. I'm not in any way saying simply DENY yourself pleasure or anything that makes sense after you give it some thought. I'm just saying there's a difference between acting on urges and inhibitions while knowingly hurting someone in your relationship and just not having a choice in the matter. That's rubbish. And HEY, yeah for those of you still reading EVERYONE fucks up at some point in relationships. Everyone makes mistakes, but why is it a mistake? BECAUSE WE SHOULD KNOW BETTER! Like I said though if you are making irrational decisions it is probably because you're downshifted into that reptilian brain. That might not be our fault to an extent, but if you are constantly behaving this way in all your relationships or most of them especially beyond a certain age there probably is something wrong there as the maturation process has probably been stunted in a large way. Whenever we are afraid or threatened of course are we behaving irrationally and our actions aren't necessarily going to be irrational either. But if you become enraged upon hearing your girlfriend confess to you she has cheated on you and you kill her lol, then that's the reptilian brain helping out somewhere along the way.

As for the rest, (and really this is just us talking about different perspectives on the same things) but I have to say I agree somewhat with you on women putting more emotions and other meanings with sex compared to men. Men often do view sex as a physical act, a time to release stress and other stuff like that, it's almost like we pride ourselves on just having it. There's nothing inherently good or bad about it in any sense either. On the other hand it depends again on your society and what is acceptable and unacceptable. Depending how strict the "law of the land" is (to save time on getting into that stuff lol) everyone is going to at least conform or deviate from the norm. Age is major factor again for both men and women when it comes to what level of maturity the person has reached(define that in any number of ways for this topic, I'll just once again broadly touch on expectations in a relationship). Now, you know as well as all of us do that there are PLENTY of women out there that just want some good ol' COCK every now and then. In terms of relationships hell there are just as many female PIMPS as there are male PIMPS/playas. There are also women that just "gold dig." Whatever, it doesn't matter. It's all the same for both men and women in this country. We all have our own expectations and desires and we want to find someone that can fulfill enough of them to satisfy us in a relationship. If we're happy we'll stay. If we're not maybe we will still stay together for better or worse or maybe we'll get a divorce or split up or what have you. It's hard to be so general when speaking about these topics because the parameters are too large. It's only discussion though, but I like reading other people's thoughts on pretty much anything. We all have our own perspectives.
 
millionman said:
Damn CYC stop being such a wussy whiny little woman. LOL, you suck by the way. Where have you been at?

Anyway, I can say that I had a great Valentine's Date last night, truly one of the best nights of my life and hers too. Not because of the sex, but because I was with the woman that I love more than anything. The timing for us isn't right at the moment, which is probably why I came home more than a tad irritated. Everything was amazing, and it's just one of those things that just can't be right now. It's rough, but what are you gonna do?

Women on the whole, personal opinion, want a man who will be there to care for them and treat them well. There is a huge difference between being a good man and a wuss bag. A man does what he wants, lives his life, and shares it with a certain woman, but a wuss bag tries to beg and buy his way into keeping her or getting her in the first place. He's not secure within himself to just let her live her life, and in most cases she is HIS life and that's never a good thing. BE INDEPenis EnlargementNDENT AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE. Share it with someone that you value and that deserves to be in your life, not someone that you just HAVE to cling to. That's not being independent nor is it going to make you happy in the long run.

Millionman, that's great news about your night of passion or whatever you want to call it. It's great to hear someone that is so down to earth as you seem to be having a good relationship.

From your description I know of two wuss bag's out of my social group. They really fit the profile.

iwant8inches I've been thouroughly enjoying your posts and yes, I have been reading the entirety of each of them. :) I just noticed that nearly all of us in this conversation are the same age. 9C9, MillionMan, iwant8inches, VK and me.

Carrying on from what you said iwant8inches, I think that we have to be careful not to simply pass off some of our natural urges as simply our 'reptilian brain' at work. In fact what is so wrong with accepting the fact that it is a part of our psyche and acting in accordance. I don't mean just thinking 'Ug, me want kill.' or something of the sort and following through on those instincts but more just acknowledging some of our more primal sexual desires.

Also, I very rarely want to fight or kill anyone. Actually I can't remember a time when I was sober and had those feelings. I get angry but control myself so I suppose what you are saying is that following our reptilian brain would be, as soon as you get pissed off, stay pissed off and act aggressively. There are some in my social group that fit that profile too.

I just realised that it might seem as if I don't mind being unfaithful but actually I'm very strongly against it. I'm really saying that maybe we shouldn't be monogomous but that we should be honest about that from the start with whichever partner we are with. Sort of like an open relationship.

I don't want to get too airy fairy now but iwant8inches you made the point that family is a very important part of society. I agree but wouldn't it be better if the whole human race was one big family that protected each other and loved one another as well as having open relationships with more than one partner (discounting relatives of course).:blush: :p

Right I am in danger of becoming a hippy. I must stop this at once.

OK back down to earth now. PHEW.
 
TomdW said:
Millionman, that's great news about your night of passion or whatever you want to call it. It's great to hear someone that is so down to earth as you seem to be having a good relationship.

From your description I know of two wuss bag's out of my social group. They really fit the profile.

iwant8inches I've been thouroughly enjoying your posts and yes, I have been reading the entirety of each of them. :) I just noticed that nearly all of us in this conversation are the same age. 9C9, MillionMan, iwant8inches, VK and me.

Carrying on from what you said iwant8inches, I think that we have to be careful not to simply pass off some of our natural urges as simply our 'reptilian brain' at work. In fact what is so wrong with accepting the fact that it is a part of our psyche and acting in accordance. I don't mean just thinking 'Ug, me want kill.' or something of the sort and following through on those instincts but more just acknowledging some of our more primal sexual desires.

Also, I very rarely want to fight or kill anyone. Actually I can't remember a time when I was sober and had those feelings. I get angry but control myself so I suppose what you are saying is that following our reptilian brain would be, as soon as you get pissed off, stay pissed off and act aggressively. There are some in my social group that fit that profile too.

I just realised that it might seem as if I don't mind being unfaithful but actually I'm very strongly against it. I'm really saying that maybe we shouldn't be monogomous but that we should be honest about that from the start with whichever partner we are with. Sort of like an open relationship.

I don't want to get too airy fairy now but iwant8inches you made the point that family is a very important part of society. I agree but wouldn't it be better if the whole human race was one big family that protected each other and loved one another as well as having open relationships with more than one partner (discounting relatives of course).:blush: :p

Right I am in danger of becoming a hippy. I must stop this at once.

OK back down to earth now. PHEW.

LOL, the whole world! one big family? That'd be GREAT! Now if we could just live in that world for a minute lol, nah I know what you're saying, but I'm looking at this in a realistic model of the human being. The reptilian brain was brought up mainly to show the patterns that we get ourselves into as far as cheating or doing certain things almost ritualistically. That whole sense of why not just acknowledge our primal sexual desires is asking for more than just an acknowledgement it would seem and would appear as more of an excuse for behavior. I don't know anyone personally on this forum and I don't judge people especially if I don't know them. I try to understand and actually probably am more curious to get past the how and down to the why part.

As for the open relationship, yeah I mean if that's an arrangement you make with your partner then any "problems" that would arise wouldn't be result of deception or betrayal. I'm more than likely making it seem like I believe the reptilian/lower brain is the cause of all irrational behavior, but that's not what I meant at all. If you get into a habit of letting your insecurities get the best of you and you can't control or work out your feelings constructively then you probably aren't able to overcome the reptilian and mammalian brains. We use all parts of our brain and the most evolved part of our brain is what is sometimes referred to as the cerebral cortex or

"Carrying on from what you said iwant8inches, I think that we have to be careful not to simply pass off some of our natural urges as simply our 'reptilian brain' at work."

Nah, that would most likely be the mammalian brain at work lol. Our inability to overcome these natural urges that sometimes result in irrational behavior would be the reptilian brain at work. There are times when they are very useful to us in life like when you're life is in danger, but these two get us into trouble most often when all we use are our instincts and fail to use our neo-cortex. Basically this is the part of our brain that has made our species evolve to the point where written and spoken language are possible and basically without it there would be no consciousness as we understand it and our many cultures would probably not exist either. All three of these parts of our brain work together simulataneously. Perhaps knowingly(meaning your prefrontal cortex lol is functioning just fine and the consequences of your actions are well understood) going about and cheating (I mean actual cheating not having an agreement with your lady about doing other people if you want) is something worth discussing here though.
 
IWANT8, I get what you're saying. The only problem with it is to assume evolution as fact. We do have what are considered to be lesser brain functions that govern our higher brain functions such as reason and speech, but the presentation of this reality as something reptilian or mammalian is over reaching the bounds of the subject. In either case I do understand what you are talking about, even though I may not agree with you 100%.

I will say that in many cases as far as reacting to a situation as opposed to ACTING is a very dangerous prospect in most situations. Self-control and managing your emotions is a vital part of life, and is a very important characteristic that many people do not possess. One of the biggest problems between the sexes is this, what I think is a central issue. I know very few men who control themselves very well when it comes to women. Meaning that they are either too aloof, showing no interest, or being too needy/clingy. There is a middle ground where you live your life and spend time with a woman because you DO care and are willing to make time because you choose to. Huge difference in SELF-CONTROL. With women I've found it to be that they are too rational, and in others entirely too emotional. Women will slober all over some guy and then clam up shut because they don't want to appear to be loose or slutty, or they are on the opposite spectrum and any man willing to pay them any attention gets a nice ride on the merry go round. Again, this is essentially either being too self-controlled to where feelings and desires are not expressed, and the other is expressing too freely. Now, I know it could be said what is too freely, but we all know there is a limit to certain kinds of behaviors. Being promiscuous because of a lack of self-control is not in the plus collumn of characteristics with anyone.

On a more personaly note I've experienced what it's like to be needy/clingy, too aloof, and to be a bit of a man whore. Through experience I have learned more about myself, and things that I never thought possible, and have come to a better understanding of relationships (all relationships) and knowing how to deal with things. I think through it all you just have to learn, live, love, and enjoy the journey. Things will happen along the way good and bad, but overall just enjoy the drive.

Also, there are tons and tons of attractive women around. Just pick one out and go talk to her. There is absolutely no harm in walking up to her and saying, "I'm sorry but I had to tell you that I think you are quite beautiful. Would you like to get a cup of coffee?" If she agrees to the coffee, then sex is on. LOL, that's from Eddie Izzard, and no it's not true. It is fun to go up to a pretty woman and say exactly what's on your mind, as long as it's fairly clean she'll probably smile, laugh, or start a conversation. If she ignores you then she's a BITCH and you then can say whatever you would like to her, because women that are just bitchy to any and everybody should be told off.
 
millionman said:
IWANT8, I get what you're saying. The only problem with it is to assume evolution as fact. We do have what are considered to be lesser brain functions that govern our higher brain functions such as reason and speech, but the presentation of this reality as something reptilian or mammalian is over reaching the bounds of the subject. In either case I do understand what you are talking about, even though I may not agree with you 100%.

I will say that in many cases as far as reacting to a situation as opposed to ACTING is a very dangerous prospect in most situations. Self-control and managing your emotions is a vital part of life, and is a very important characteristic that many people do not possess. One of the biggest problems between the sexes is this, what I think is a central issue. I know very few men who control themselves very well when it comes to women. Meaning that they are either too aloof, showing no interest, or being too needy/clingy. There is a middle ground where you live your life and spend time with a woman because you DO care and are willing to make time because you choose to. Huge difference in SELF-CONTROL. With women I've found it to be that they are too rational, and in others entirely too emotional. Women will slober all over some guy and then clam up shut because they don't want to appear to be loose or slutty, or they are on the opposite spectrum and any man willing to pay them any attention gets a nice ride on the merry go round. Again, this is essentially either being too self-controlled to where feelings and desires are not expressed, and the other is expressing too freely. Now, I know it could be said what is too freely, but we all know there is a limit to certain kinds of behaviors. Being promiscuous because of a lack of self-control is not in the plus collumn of characteristics with anyone.

On a more personaly note I've experienced what it's like to be needy/clingy, too aloof, and to be a bit of a man whore. Through experience I have learned more about myself, and things that I never thought possible, and have come to a better understanding of relationships (all relationships) and knowing how to deal with things. I think through it all you just have to learn, live, love, and enjoy the journey. Things will happen along the way good and bad, but overall just enjoy the drive.

Also, there are tons and tons of attractive women around. Just pick one out and go talk to her. There is absolutely no harm in walking up to her and saying, "I'm sorry but I had to tell you that I think you are quite beautiful. Would you like to get a cup of coffee?" If she agrees to the coffee, then sex is on. LOL, that's from Eddie Izzard, and no it's not true. It is fun to go up to a pretty woman and say exactly what's on your mind, as long as it's fairly clean she'll probably smile, laugh, or start a conversation. If she ignores you then she's a BITCH and you then can say whatever you would like to her, because women that are just bitchy to any and everybody should be told off.

Well, I said I'm no Ph. D and not an expert in sociobiology or anything of the like. In any case it's very hard to deal with the abstract especially when trying to apply it with something we can observe with our senses. It is what it is and I'm just applying what I understand from literature that I've read. You might have your own interpretations and might know more about all this, but IT is there and it needs to be explained so...Something causes us to behave certain ways in any case regardless of what we believe. I'm trying to look at generalities and that is all the more difficult so cripes MILL lol please bare with me. Alot of our behavior is constrained and defined or rather shaped by the society in which we live. I would say I agree with your saying that there needs to be an establisHydromaxent of your own identity while sort of balancing that with your need to establish bonds in terms of friends or in a sexual manner.

I believe in evolution (the idea of evolution period, but as far as what theory I accept more than others, hell I don't know if that's possible for me to decide without there being a perfect example of a damn near absolute proof of its existence for human beings) just based on the new discoveries with genetics and the innumerable possibilities of organisms and their makeup alone. We see so much diversity in species and it just makes more sense to me than some of the I.D. stuff out there posing that such a complex organism as human beings for example could only have an intelligent designer. I tend to see the possibilities of more complexity out of the need created by the "something taken out" of the equation as opposed to the certain collapse others might protest. How many times does it take to get an invention just right? It's too much to ask for us to figure out our origins and how we came to be much less while trying to factor in the supernatural(I think the methods of science have done a fine job unravelling the myths and supernatural of yesterday into something more plausible, provable, valid, reliable and verifiable.) The phenomena, anything that occurs, we can study within our mortal and limited range of knowledge and that is the only way we'll discover such things. I'm not putting words into your mouth either millionman (I have no idea what you believe), but the biggest opponent or as I see it obstacle in the way of science/evolutionary theories is I.D. I just see I.D. as saying ALL RIGHT we all ready KNOW that there is a higher being and that's our answer. We're done.

What we see today or rather what we are today might be fine for now and for thousands of years ago, but there's too much that could change globally from an environmental standpoint that could bring about certain needs for adaptation. Look at our species own adaptation to sunlight/climate in terms of skin pigmentation. Branching off completely from your species? Other species still around that we believed to be ancestors of homo sapiens? There's a lot of damn questions to be answered, but it makes more sense to find out these answers and possibly disprove theory after theory until we get it right seeing as how that is kind of the point anyway, right? There are variables that we cannot ignore today (and variables we cannot account for as well presently and in the future) and the consequences we'll experience might be as hard to project (we'd need that Intelligent Designer to predict or rather tell us what's going to happen I suppose since the mighty I.D. must know as he created everything) as anything we've been able to understand much less project.
 
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