Andractim is my last hope...
- Thread starter Douglas Hamlin
- Start date
-
- Tags
- base girth bathmate circulation clamping depression discoloration doublelongdaddy edging effective erect erectile erection erection quality erections exercise exercises extreme flaccid foreskin gain gaining gains girth gains glans growing growth hands hanging impotence jelq jelq device jelqs kegels larger length master libido load masturbate micropenis painful pelvis penis penis growth phallosan posts progress pump pumping question quick gains recovery research results routine sensations sex short shower skin stretch stretcher stretching suction supplement support tension testicles thick tingling transgender workout wrap
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 356
Douglas Hamlin;380457 said:Over-analysis is part of the scientific mind. As far as these experiments go, I would say its an asset.
Been doing some research on DHT receptor up-regulation. There seems to be an stimulatory effect from supplementing with Vitamin D3. Don't have time tonight to go into details, but I thought I would mention it and see if you wanted to do some digging. If Vitamin D3 is beneficial, perhaps a topical application in conjunction with DHT may help maximize chemical reactions.
Check this out: http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/140/3/1205
DH, I haven't looked at the article you cited, but that's exactly what I was thinking, if there was a way to promote up-regulation, then hit it with the DHT, results could be outstanding! I'll look into it and see what I can find, thanks DH.
I'm glad this is beneficial to others Persian, I'm going to keep pursuing it and see what happens.
Dford
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
Day 7 of Decon 2:
Did a 10 minute Bathmate session at 130 mm for 10 minutes. No fluid retention, no discomfort. Followed up with 8 minute jelq. Noticed that PIs have plateau or slightly diminished: flaccid hang has plateaued or slightly smaller and less warm, less horny, pump from workout fades quickly.
Consequently, I have been thinking about revising my workouts. I'm going to try doing 1 day on/1 day off. Specifically, I would like to do a more intense Bathmate workout followed up with my standard 15-20 minutes jelq/clamp/erect bend combo.
Today (Day 8) is a scheduled day off. Tomorrow I will experiment with a new Bathmate routine for 12-15 minutes, perhaps more depending on physical sensations. I plan on doing an interval routine that progressively increases and cycles intensity. Positive signs of a superior training effect should indicate a fuller flaccid - and/or longer lasting pump - without additional fluid retention. Days off should also reveal PIs.
I will post details once I have completed the experiment.
Did a 10 minute Bathmate session at 130 mm for 10 minutes. No fluid retention, no discomfort. Followed up with 8 minute jelq. Noticed that PIs have plateau or slightly diminished: flaccid hang has plateaued or slightly smaller and less warm, less horny, pump from workout fades quickly.
Consequently, I have been thinking about revising my workouts. I'm going to try doing 1 day on/1 day off. Specifically, I would like to do a more intense Bathmate workout followed up with my standard 15-20 minutes jelq/clamp/erect bend combo.
Today (Day 8) is a scheduled day off. Tomorrow I will experiment with a new Bathmate routine for 12-15 minutes, perhaps more depending on physical sensations. I plan on doing an interval routine that progressively increases and cycles intensity. Positive signs of a superior training effect should indicate a fuller flaccid - and/or longer lasting pump - without additional fluid retention. Days off should also reveal PIs.
I will post details once I have completed the experiment.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 356
DH,
I've been studying androgen receptor agonists and antagonists, I think making the receptors respond to the DHT is the missing link here. That's why some respond better than others, their receptors are active and able to respond to the DHT, like in pubescent men. If there is some way to "re-activate" the receptors, or produce more receptors, I think it would have to work. I can find thousands of things that are antagonists and block DHT from binding to receptors, but I'm struggling to find things that do the opposite, probably because most of the studies have been done to find ways to block them to fight hair loss, prostate cancer, etc. Any ideas? I'll keep searching.
I've scaled back the Andractim to the same dose you are taking, 2.5g twice per day. I figure that that is keeping my levels plenty high, well above baseline, and I'm going to either respond or not, depending upon receptor activity. I've still been having a lot more night/morning wood, like I'm juicing, but without the other effects or AAS. I know it's in my system, but whether I respond or not remains to be seen.
I've been keeping up with the Bathmate every day, the red spots I used to get are rare and more mild when I do get them. I think it's a matter of conditioning my unit in the pump. I go at least 20 min. and gradually ramp up the intensity as the time passes, with maximum pressure for the last 5 min. or so. I don't see how I could pump at full pressure (no more water escapes) for the whole 20 min., especially since I am not totally erect the whole time. I think slowly working up to max pressure helps keep the side effects like the red spots and fluid retention to a minimum.
Let's keep this journey going, we need to figure this DHT thing out for all mankind!
Dford
I've been studying androgen receptor agonists and antagonists, I think making the receptors respond to the DHT is the missing link here. That's why some respond better than others, their receptors are active and able to respond to the DHT, like in pubescent men. If there is some way to "re-activate" the receptors, or produce more receptors, I think it would have to work. I can find thousands of things that are antagonists and block DHT from binding to receptors, but I'm struggling to find things that do the opposite, probably because most of the studies have been done to find ways to block them to fight hair loss, prostate cancer, etc. Any ideas? I'll keep searching.
I've scaled back the Andractim to the same dose you are taking, 2.5g twice per day. I figure that that is keeping my levels plenty high, well above baseline, and I'm going to either respond or not, depending upon receptor activity. I've still been having a lot more night/morning wood, like I'm juicing, but without the other effects or AAS. I know it's in my system, but whether I respond or not remains to be seen.
I've been keeping up with the Bathmate every day, the red spots I used to get are rare and more mild when I do get them. I think it's a matter of conditioning my unit in the pump. I go at least 20 min. and gradually ramp up the intensity as the time passes, with maximum pressure for the last 5 min. or so. I don't see how I could pump at full pressure (no more water escapes) for the whole 20 min., especially since I am not totally erect the whole time. I think slowly working up to max pressure helps keep the side effects like the red spots and fluid retention to a minimum.
Let's keep this journey going, we need to figure this DHT thing out for all mankind!
Dford
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 356
I don't know DLD, it is not supposed to be used for Penis Enlargement purposes at all, you have to give another reason to even be allowed to order it, and there seems to be only one place to order from. Maybe if we had a section on the forum for gynecomastia, we could skirt it that way.
DH, check out this link, it's a long read, but the author seems very logical and practical. He thinks that the administration of androgens is a catalyst for androgen receptor upregulation in and of itself. If that's true, prolonged use of DHT will cause the upregulation of the androgen receptors that I have been looking for, and allow the DHT to do it's work.
Dford
Oops forgot the link, here it is:
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm
DH, check out this link, it's a long read, but the author seems very logical and practical. He thinks that the administration of androgens is a catalyst for androgen receptor upregulation in and of itself. If that's true, prolonged use of DHT will cause the upregulation of the androgen receptors that I have been looking for, and allow the DHT to do it's work
.Dford
Oops forgot the link, here it is:
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/androgen-receptor-regulation.htm
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
Day 9 of Decon 2:
Did a 18 minute Bathmate workout using varying intensity. I started at 120 mm for 2 minutes, then up to 140 for 2 minutes, then to 160 for 2 minutes, down to 150 for 2 minutes, up to 170 mm (max) for 2 minutes, down to 140 for 2 minutes, up to 160 for 2 minutes, 170 for 1 minute, 150 for 2 minutes, etc.
Did not notice any particular benefit from this workout. Fluid buildup was minor, and post flaccid returned to normal once workout ceased. Bathmate pumping seems to be providing less and less of a workout as post workout pump does not feel as powerful nor last as long as it used to.
At this juncture, I am afraid that my results may permanently plateau, as they have in the past. It has been a little over 3 weeks now, and just like all of the other training routines that I have been on (most show progress for only a month), I am experiencing a tremendous amount of difficulty in producing consistent and continual PIs/gains.
I am not quitting, but I am certainly facing some significant challenges... my flaccid has returned to normal, as have my erections. FUCKING HELL!
Did a 18 minute Bathmate workout using varying intensity. I started at 120 mm for 2 minutes, then up to 140 for 2 minutes, then to 160 for 2 minutes, down to 150 for 2 minutes, up to 170 mm (max) for 2 minutes, down to 140 for 2 minutes, up to 160 for 2 minutes, 170 for 1 minute, 150 for 2 minutes, etc.
Did not notice any particular benefit from this workout. Fluid buildup was minor, and post flaccid returned to normal once workout ceased. Bathmate pumping seems to be providing less and less of a workout as post workout pump does not feel as powerful nor last as long as it used to.
At this juncture, I am afraid that my results may permanently plateau, as they have in the past. It has been a little over 3 weeks now, and just like all of the other training routines that I have been on (most show progress for only a month), I am experiencing a tremendous amount of difficulty in producing consistent and continual PIs/gains.
I am not quitting, but I am certainly facing some significant challenges... my flaccid has returned to normal, as have my erections. FUCKING HELL!
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
I just finished re-reading my progress log, trying to discern at which point things started to change for the worse. My results were looking good when I was pumping daily - 1 time per day. Results reached a peak but then started to slow down and signs of overtraining were present when I switched to 2 pump sessions per DHT day and 1 pump session on non-DHT days. Apparently, sporadic benefits manifested during daily pumping with 1 high intensity day and 1 low intensity day. And though its too early to tell, I have a feeling that every other day wont work.
So... what was it about the beginning that was so effective? Was it because I was standing in the shower? Or was it because I pumped to near maximum intensity with rest breaks built in? Today, I will experiment with high intensity pumping - 160-170 mm - for 5 minute intervals with 1 minute breaks between.
Wish me luck.
So... what was it about the beginning that was so effective? Was it because I was standing in the shower? Or was it because I pumped to near maximum intensity with rest breaks built in? Today, I will experiment with high intensity pumping - 160-170 mm - for 5 minute intervals with 1 minute breaks between.
Wish me luck.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2007
- Messages
- 166
so have you guys gotten any gains? I've been away from MS for awhile, my routine is all messed up, but ones the money rolls in im going to order a couple tubes of andractin and use it with the Bathmate. I had a great session with the Bathmate today, my erect girth is 4.5 today after the Bathmate a whopping 5.5! i was like WHOA HELL YES!
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
persian;380846 said:
Thanks, Persian. I completely understand that Penis Enlargement is a marathon, not a sprint. However, if you read the beginning of my progress log, you will see that I have been working on Penis Enlargement for a LONG TIME - to which I haven't experienced ANY permanent gains.
This progress log initially was designed to test DHT - to which it still is - however, after experimenting with the Bathmate, I feel that there is some definite potential. Right now, I am in the process of trying to break through the "1 month barrier" - which is a reoccurring plateau point that I have experienced with all of my Penis Enlargement workouts/experiments. If I can somehow keep the PIs going beyond 1 month, I am sure that I will be able to gain.
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
phaseshift;380988 said:
Nice Bathmate session, Phaseshift! What type of workout did you do (mm intensity? Total Duration?)
I have yet to solidify any gains. I remain optimistic about DHT, yet, still haven't noticed any positive affects from supplementing. I'm on a DHT Decon break right now, but will be back on track in 5 days.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2007
- Messages
- 166
Douglas Hamlin;380993 said:
I did 20 minutes of maximum duration, after the 15th mark i took it off and reapplied
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 356
DH, I never really pay attention to PI's unless they are severe, since there are so many variables that can affect them, both Penis Enlargement related and non Penis Enlargement related. Do you think you could be reading too much into them and scaling back your routine too much? I have always been of the school of thought that if you get maximum stretch and expansion as frequently as possible, gains will come. This has worked for me so far. For example, I use the Bathmate daily and always try to max out the pressure towards the end of the 20 min. set. The more I've done this, the less I get fluid retention and red spots, and the more I feel a good, solid expansion. Some days feel better than others, but cumulatively I feel like I get a better response from consistent use this way. I do my stretching the same way, I stretch the hell out of it and usually feel a nice burn each time, and some days it feels better than others, but I always push it and try to get a new record BPFSL after each session, or at the least make sure I reach my current record. That way I know the gains will come.
As for the DHT, the more research I do, the more I read that the administration of an androgen itself promotes androgen receptor up regulation. So as far as I can tell, if I continue to apply daily, the receptors will eventually up regulate and the DHT will work it's magic. Dare I say it may have already started. I think I may be gaining erect length and it feels different from normal stretching gains. It's hard to explain, but I know my body very well, and it feels like the apparent gains are from "more dick" and not from ligament stretch alone. Maybe 1/8th inch at this point, but I think it will progress a little faster since I think the upregulation has kicked in. The apparent gains are still too small to rule out variation in measuring, but if I get to 1/4 or so I'll know for sure. Keep plugging away and keep me posted.
Dford
As for the DHT, the more research I do, the more I read that the administration of an androgen itself promotes androgen receptor up regulation. So as far as I can tell, if I continue to apply daily, the receptors will eventually up regulate and the DHT will work it's magic. Dare I say it may have already started. I think I may be gaining erect length and it feels different from normal stretching gains. It's hard to explain, but I know my body very well, and it feels like the apparent gains are from "more dick" and not from ligament stretch alone. Maybe 1/8th inch at this point, but I think it will progress a little faster since I think the upregulation has kicked in. The apparent gains are still too small to rule out variation in measuring, but if I get to 1/4 or so I'll know for sure. Keep plugging away and keep me posted.
Dford
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 356
Also, we know that NO plays an important role in penile health, but I've seen it mentioned a couple times with regard to androgen recptors, but I'm still unclear as to what extent and how. Do you know anything about this? Arginine is probably a good thing to take on a regular basis anyway, but maybe it helps with the DHT is some way. I'll start taking some, but it's a pain to do because it must be taken on an empty stomach in order to be effective (without the presence of other aminos) and I rarely have an empty stomach, even before bed.
Dford
Dford
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
dickfordays;381013 said:
Glad to hear things are looking up for you, Dford! And thanks for keeping up with the posts. They will certainly help!
Regarding my PI obsession, I feel that it is valid. Like I have mentioned in the beginning of this thread, I have been doing Penis Enlargement for a LONG time. I know my body and I know when a workout is providing stimulus for growth vs. just stretching the skin - literally. Take last night for example:
Day 10 of Decon 2:
Did a 15 minute Bathmate workout, with a 3 minute warm-up. The 3 minute warm up consisted of a slow progression to 130 mm. Once completed, I did 3, 5 minute intervals to maximum pressure (165 mm). After the workout was complete, I noticed that my penis isn't nearly as red as it used to be post pump, felt lighter (lost the heavy feeling), and did not retain a pump post workout.
There is definitely a difference in my Bathmate workouts as they are no longer providing benefits. Today, I had a terrible flaccid hang (smaller than usual) with cold sensations. I don't know if I am undertraining or overtraining, but clearly something needs to change because I am exactly where I started...
Perhaps the DHT was the definitive factor for my growth? I will try another experiment tonight to test against the DHT theory. If all else fails, then taking a break for a few days and retesting the DHT protocol will determine whether it was the cause for my temporary gains or not.
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
Day 11 of Decon 2:
Worst day of Bathmate history! Did a 15 minute Bathmate workout in 3, 5 minute intervals at 160-175 mm (new maximum was achieved via manipulating pump angles). It is now very apparent that the majority of my pump is the result of lymphatic fluid accumulation; the higher intensity causing a significant accumulation. Post pump, my penis is quite soft, no longer red (a sign of blood engorgement), and puffy. After a quick 2 minute shake, stretch, jelq, I managed to reduce the majority of the lymph fluid and my penis lost its artificial pump.
Didn't have the motivation nor time to do a manual routine afterwards.
Day 12 of Decon 2:
Did a quick 10 minute Bathmate workout in 2, 5 minute intervals at 150-160 mm. Still experiencing an artificial pump that is lacking blood engorgement. Did not do a manual routine as it was late in the evening. Flaccid today feels ok, despite the shity workouts.
Reflection: After experimenting with various techniques and strategies, it appears as though the DHT was enabling the shunting of blood during my Bathmate workouts. After a few days of Decon 2, benefits of DHT appear to have worn off and workouts began decreasing in productivity (lack of positive PIs: less horny, decreased flaccid, lack of significant and sustainable pump post workout, etc.). Today, I will start Day 1 of Phase 3. I plan on applying 3.75 grams of DHT 2 times daily, everyday (would like to do 5 grams, but I need to conserve supply until I get some more money).
Worst day of Bathmate history! Did a 15 minute Bathmate workout in 3, 5 minute intervals at 160-175 mm (new maximum was achieved via manipulating pump angles). It is now very apparent that the majority of my pump is the result of lymphatic fluid accumulation; the higher intensity causing a significant accumulation. Post pump, my penis is quite soft, no longer red (a sign of blood engorgement), and puffy. After a quick 2 minute shake, stretch, jelq, I managed to reduce the majority of the lymph fluid and my penis lost its artificial pump.
Didn't have the motivation nor time to do a manual routine afterwards.
Day 12 of Decon 2:
Did a quick 10 minute Bathmate workout in 2, 5 minute intervals at 150-160 mm. Still experiencing an artificial pump that is lacking blood engorgement. Did not do a manual routine as it was late in the evening. Flaccid today feels ok, despite the shity workouts.
Reflection: After experimenting with various techniques and strategies, it appears as though the DHT was enabling the shunting of blood during my Bathmate workouts. After a few days of Decon 2, benefits of DHT appear to have worn off and workouts began decreasing in productivity (lack of positive PIs: less horny, decreased flaccid, lack of significant and sustainable pump post workout, etc.). Today, I will start Day 1 of Phase 3. I plan on applying 3.75 grams of DHT 2 times daily, everyday (would like to do 5 grams, but I need to conserve supply until I get some more money).
- Joined
- May 19, 2009
- Messages
- 124
Day 1 of Phase 3:
Applied my first 3.75 gram of DHT a few hours ago. Since its Friday and I've got time to kill, I got a little stony and played some video games for a bit. Then, it hit me... I got really horny! Not sure if it was the bud or the DHT, but I decided to take advantage of it anyway; so I proceeded to do a 20 minute edge/clamping session. Great workout! My penis felt nice and warm in the midst of it.
I am currently experiencing a decent flaccid hang with some good warmth. Looking forward to my Bathmate workout and post 3.75 gram application later this evening!
DLD, since you asked, yeah I got a question. Is there any consensus on Green Tea and Penis Enlargement? Some users say its good for Penis Enlargement (stimulates the conversion of T to DHT - or something to that effect). Curious because I drink Green Tea every once and a while and am wondering if it would be a synergistic aid or inhibitory (others have stated that Green Tea is DHT inhibitor).
Applied my first 3.75 gram of DHT a few hours ago. Since its Friday and I've got time to kill, I got a little stony and played some video games for a bit. Then, it hit me... I got really horny! Not sure if it was the bud or the DHT, but I decided to take advantage of it anyway; so I proceeded to do a 20 minute edge/clamping session. Great workout! My penis felt nice and warm in the midst of it.
I am currently experiencing a decent flaccid hang with some good warmth. Looking forward to my Bathmate workout and post 3.75 gram application later this evening!
DLD, since you asked, yeah I got a question. Is there any consensus on Green Tea and Penis Enlargement? Some users say its good for Penis Enlargement (stimulates the conversion of T to DHT - or something to that effect). Curious because I drink Green Tea every once and a while and am wondering if it would be a synergistic aid or inhibitory (others have stated that Green Tea is DHT inhibitor).
Similar threads
